EP: 0416 - Female Led Relationships - Evolution of Domestic Discipline and Communication in an FLR

00:00 - Krystine (Host)
Hi Subby

00:06 - Subby (Co-host)
Hey, how's it going. 

00:08 - Krystine (Host)
Judy and Steve are here still. Yay, yeah, we're going to pump out all of the podcasts while they're here. Yeah, and talk about all the things. Yep, we've had them on the podcast before and we talked about it was probably a year ago because it was last year. Yep, well, we redid it. But, yes, we're going to talk about domestic discipline today and how that's going. We talked about it with them last time they were on the podcast and we have also had episodes of ours about seasons and evolution. Yeah, we're going to check in with other people and see if it's just us going through the evolutions. 

00:44 - Subby (Co-host)
So we'll do kind of a combo. 

00:45 - Krystine (Host)
Yes, so welcome back guys. 

00:47 - Steven (Guest)
Thanks, great to be here. 

00:49 - Krystine (Host)
Change of scenery. We're not in their camper this time, we're outside, so the birds are chirping Yep, enjoying the sun. Yeah, beautiful we just did the post-walk walk talk. The beautiful weather that they brought with them, yes, thank you, yep. 

01:03 - Steven (Guest)
You guys should come back more often Just saying yeah. You guys should come back more often Just saying yeah, you're only 1,300 miles away. Yeah, I mean. 

01:07 - Krystine (Host)
I mean you're right, we got this. We have talked in past episodes how our female-led relationship is ebbing and flowing. The winter was hard on us and we haven't really done much. As far as well. 

01:23 - Subby (Co-host)
We never really did the domestic discipline, but we haven't done much of the flogging cropping Right. Really did the domestic discipline but we haven't done much of the flogging cropping right. We did a lot of it in the apartment. We did when we discovered that right, it's like a kid finding a new toy. Yeah it was real fun yeah, and then we faded a little way, because we're in a 24 foot camper with a kid with a kid so there's not really the environment for that, unless he goes to his dad's for the weekend right in the winter. 

01:46 - Steven (Guest)
That's not an option no, it's not but right yes, and you can't bury him in the sand outside the camper for an hour listen, it's lost my mind go play in the storm shelter yes we've kind of fallen off from that a season of it. 

02:01 - Judy (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, it comes and goes, the ebb and flow thing with your toys too, like when you're saying tiny toy, yeah, yep so it'll come back, goes right. 

02:11 - Steven (Guest)
When you were a kid, you got a new barbie or a new pocket. Yeah, yep all the time. And then, uh, seven days I was like yeah yep, so we need to order more toys. 

02:20 - Krystine (Host)
Is that what I'm getting from this Waiting on? 

02:23 - Subby (Co-host)
you Don't start me with a good time, yeah. 

02:26 - Krystine (Host)
Where are you guys at with your? You were very scheduled and routine with yours. 

02:32 - Steven (Guest)
Yes, we were. 

02:33 - Krystine (Host)
And I think the last time we talked it happened every Tuesday. Tuesday was the day, so where are we at with that? Does that still occur? 

02:42 - Judy (Guest)
It does not. 

02:43 - Steven (Guest)
It does not occur. It does not, it does not occur. 

02:44 - Judy (Guest)
It does not. It's uh. When we ended our last trip, we we stopped. 

02:48 - Steven (Guest)
It wasn't working it wasn't working the same way. The same way, yes, we had it for a good year, so we went for quite some time. But not uh fulfilling the same purpose, fulfilling the same emotional yes, started again, I guess, when the newness wore off and you were into the uh, like the routine, the real routine of it more of justice, yeah, so before we go it, became a task yeah kind of obligation so, okay, you we talked about this a little bit. 

03:21 - Krystine (Host)
I don't exactly recall explain why you started it in the first place. What was the reasoning for starting it and how did you get into the Tuesdays? 

03:32 - Steven (Guest)
Today was just Judy. It was a good day for it. 

03:35 - Judy (Guest)
For us, for our travels. 

03:36 - Steven (Guest)
For our travels and for our schedules. And it started because I, in our conversations, you know we're talking about this all the time and I said well, you know how am I going to be a better person if you do not take me to task for some of those things that? 

03:53
I need to improve upon, and that's where the essence of it began. And then we made a list of infractions. And then we liked some of them and we ripped some of them up and we made a new list of infractions and a list of infractions. And then we like some of them and we ripped some of them up and we made a new list of infractions and a list of rules and a list of rules and we lose. 

04:12
We're too specific, and you know, and so we wanted to get more general rules, which came with with a number of spankings, and the maintenance ones were just there every time anyway, and and that was, and that worked for a while and I think when it kind of I after a while, I asked her if she could be more verbal uh while this was going on, explain more uh and and and you know, really delve into some of the reasons that I was there. 

04:45
While I was there, instead of me, it was a lot of silence. Silence really was difficult when I was on the spanking bench and immobile and unable to speak, and I really wanted to hear more from Judy about why we're here and what she expected, and that would have made it a little easier for you for me to do it to be there, because I would be. I'm being reminded of why I'm there and it's fresh in my memory and it's not like I have to think about why I'm there. It was just it was, it was the whole thing. You know, if were ever had, if you were in parochial school and you ever got disciplined by the years ago not even close to doing that now but you knew why you were there you were constantly being told why you were there and what behavior got you to this particular place, and that was kind of of missing, especially on the maintenance side where that was going on I mean part of us also, there wasn't as much. 

05:50 - Judy (Guest)
He was always a very good subject, not always, but in general a very good study, and my memory is not great. So a week I found hard to kind of go back and rehash things that were five, six, seven days. 

06:07
I tried to write it in my phone but I was having a hard time with the doing a good job at explaining. You know what bothered me and sometimes I would get very angry that it's like, well, this happened last Wednesday, but now we're talking about it and it's Tuesday and I'm like beyond it. But I'm not beyond it because we're here now. 

06:26 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah. 

06:26 - Judy (Guest)
So that, and then that's when I would get quiet. He didn't like that. I got quiet. Because, then I would just be thinking. You know when I was, when I was disciplining, and then we tried the not talking during it. 

06:39 - Steven (Guest)
She said at one particular point I can't, I just can't do it. 

06:41 - Judy (Guest)
I said so, don't say anything and then and that's been after a couple weeks of that. 

06:46 - Steven (Guest)
Well, a couple of months of that yeah, it's just what's what's the point? 

06:51 - Judy (Guest)
it's not, you're not, it's not changing any behaviors, and it was. It became more of an obligation. 

06:58 - Steven (Guest)
I think I think at one time I got five extra and I had no idea why I was getting five extra. Now time for the five extra. I went, you know, I couldn't really say anything, I'm sure when I was on log I'm like what was that? Where did that come from? I hated that. That was a terrible drop in communication Sure, and so it was a little frustrating at that particular point. 

07:25 - Judy (Guest)
On top of it. Physically, he was having issues. He has a bad knee, and so for him to get on and off the bench was harder. He has a bad shoulder, so when I lock it up, one of his arms doesn't bend that well. So and then he was having hand problems so I was telling christine so to be put in the gloves. It was hard like he couldn't get, couldn't get his hand in I would. 

07:50
I was nervous about time. I was trying to watch the clock to make sure that his hand wasn't in that position for too long. Sure, just got. It wasn't doing what it was supposed to, got complicated and it wasn't fun yeah, yeah, yeah, there's too many other contributing factors. And I was worried that there was more anger in some of the hitting. That wasn't the purpose. 

08:12 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah. 

08:12 - Judy (Guest)
But I got frustrated. 

08:14 - Subby (Co-host)
Sure. 

08:14 - Steven (Guest)
So it dropped. 

08:15 - Subby (Co-host)
I mean it just kind of you said forget it. 

08:17 - Steven (Guest)
Well, we didn't really say forget it. Judy said I'm not doing it, basically, and I said okay, and I'm sure that it will come around again. I'm not sure that it's over forever. Sure, because I'm having my knee. I'm having my knee done and you know, and we had a discussion the other day- my hand done so. 

08:39
I can get that in the glove, and so we also had a discussion the other day that it might appear to be painful or difficult to get on a bench or be in a position, but sometimes that's the sacrifice that adds to the dimension of what you're doing. 

08:55
Sure, you know there's a type of bondage which is called stress bondage, where you know the purpose is actually make it as uncomfortable as possible before you even start. Sure, and there's a certain piece of me that actually is turned on with a little bit of stress bonding if you mix it up with a little bit of teasing, so I can see some of that coming together. 

09:18 - Subby (Co-host)
I identify with that, for sure, yeah absolutely, so it really heightens it. 

09:23 - Steven (Guest)
It will probably come back again. Again. It will be a lot of talking. It always has to be. 

09:29 - Subby (Co-host)
Right. 

09:29 - Steven (Guest)
The foundation is there for a good conversation. 

09:32 - Judy (Guest)
Planning, or at least so that I'm more comfortable, at least from my end I have to have a better see. What's going to be different now, like how are we going to approach it differently? Right, Right? 

09:46 - Steven (Guest)
Maybe it'll become a little easier for you to remember some of this stuff. 

09:49 - Krystine (Host)
Maybe we and I'm just throwing stuff out, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not. 

09:52 - Steven (Guest)
Maybe it's shorter intervals more frequent, more frequent maybe I was thinking that too, yeah maybe the uh maintenance comes down because that's tough to throw in at intervals, so it's more behavioral-based instead of that, and or maybe it gets tied into a little bit of play at any one particular point in time. Pun intended. 

10:13 - Judy (Guest)
Yes, pun intended. 

10:16 - Steven (Guest)
Do you? 

10:16 - Krystine (Host)
think that I mean we've had the discussion too that you know your maintenance is much different than a play session. 

10:23 - Subby (Co-host)
Yes, Mentally for you. 

10:25 - Judy (Guest)
Yep. 

10:25 - Krystine (Host)
So would it be hard to mix those two, because obviously you two have very different reactions to these sessions. I mean, I know you said you were experiencing some anger, but overall I think, like for me I fucking love it, like it's a huge turnout. 

10:43 - Judy (Guest)
It is different if it's in a play session. 

10:44 - Steven (Guest)
Yes, very, very different, very different, yes and she also uses different implements right play session. Sure, she loves the big black paddle during a place that she likes the sound. Yep, sure I get that feeling of it and uh, and she can really wail away with that big black paddle. Sure, quite some time they do it. The domestic discipline was done with a rattan cane and I'm gonna do it yeah yeah, wow, yeah and uh don't use that at any other time. 

11:11
Yeah, okay because it's then associated with okay okay and she did buy, uh, and I said it was not a great toy to buy when she bought it, but she did buy a plastic skinny, thinny whippy thing with a red handle. Sure, it could be very brutal, for sure, but it was also Also broke Cheap and the top four just snapped off. Yeah, in a bag, in a bunch of steel, no, no, in the bag. And then it was pointy at the top, which I didn't realize. 

11:45 - Judy (Guest)
And I'm like, look, there's this piece left over and, yeah, yeah, it just kind of snapped, so in some respects you get what you pay, yeah yeah, yeah, the plastic one, get the rubber one and one. 

11:51 - Steven (Guest)
It isn't going to do that, but those can be, you know, and she would. I bought it with the understanding that it might take over for the rat tank and being something that is very aggressive, okay, aggressive, okay, uh, that she has to be careful as to how she's pieces. 

12:05 - Judy (Guest)
Them broke because I was aggressive with them. 

12:07 - Krystine (Host)
That wasn't yes yeah, sure, so would it be. I mean, would it be hard to have a maintenance session and then have a play session right after? 

12:15 - Steven (Guest)
I think maybe not so much for judy, but for you steve in your, in your mentally, yeah, in your headspace um, I really, at the beginning of this, yes, wanted to have him very separated and very separated, but as I've gotten older or wiser, as some of it has changed? No, I don't think it would. It means as much now, okay, what I, what I, what I really want is, in all honesty, is to treat Judy as best possible to treat. 

12:44 - Judy (Guest)
Judy as best possible. 

12:45 - Steven (Guest)
All the time, all the time. And I do. I started with some of it, with doing a lot of self-reporting and what is self-reporting was so if I talk to her with an edge and she doesn't pick up on it, I would say well, you know, looking back, the way I spoke to you was completely unacceptable and I did that for a while. And eventually I said to her I can't self-report all the time anymore. 

13:12 - Krystine (Host)
I'm like tattling on myself Well did you feel like that was tapping from the bottom, like he was trying to tell you? 

13:17 - Subby (Co-host)
Interesting. 

13:18 - Judy (Guest)
So, at the beginning I did yeah, which annoyed me, but then, at the same time, I was like I was like you should be self-reporting, in that you should be noticing what you're doing and you should be making the change. Yeah, I shouldn't have to sit here and tell you you did this, you did that, you have to change. So, whereas at the beginning I was like, well, this sucks. And I'm like, no, this is the way it should be yeah, yeah, you should be more self-monitoring yourself and you. 

13:45
If you notice that you have an edge in your voice, then you should change it, because that's what you should do. You shouldn't change it because I then come and. I'm a bitch and say you didn't get me. 

13:52 - Subby (Co-host)
Right, right right. 

13:53 - Judy (Guest)
So I thought it's what started as a negative. 

14:00 - Steven (Guest)
I tried to spin it to. I don't like the tone in your voice. 

14:02 - Krystine (Host)
Which I do sometimes. 

14:03 - Steven (Guest)
Which she does sometimes. 

14:04 - Krystine (Host)
I've picked up on that a little bit lately. 

14:07 - Steven (Guest)
Sometimes you're in the heat of the moment. You know you're in a stressful situation. 

14:11 - Judy (Guest)
You have these feelings. 

14:12 - Steven (Guest)
I'm sure when you were banging out the rims. 

14:15 - Krystine (Host)
Oh, we didn't talk, right? No, I just knew. 

14:18 - Steven (Guest)
So, like I, you know, we've had some problems with the camper and the power. Those are very stressful situations. So there's a hardness in my voice sometimes when she asks a question which I consider silly or impertinent at this particular point in time and I will snap. I know I'm snapping, but I'm in a heightened state of anxiety at this particular point in time. 

14:44 - Judy (Guest)
Here's the thing when you thought you were self-reporting, I took it as different. It was an extenuating circumstance and I understand that, and I didn't always think that that was. 

14:56 - Steven (Guest)
That's your prerogative. 

14:57 - Judy (Guest)
Yeah, I know In that it wasn't deserving of extra because there were the extenuating circumstances. And I can't tell you, I don't think I should, I, I can't even. Nobody is going to be even keel calm yeah clear thinking, especially when other things are going on. So I that's part of why I had trouble explaining some of it, because when you would self-report and I'd be like, okay, whatever, it's hard, it was hard because I didn't always. 

15:27 - Steven (Guest)
Sometimes I agreed and sometimes I didn't agree you wanted to give me a pass because of the circumstances sure sure so, but, yeah, that's your choice, yeah but it was also 

15:39 - Judy (Guest)
tricky for me sure it's a fine line, yeah, I mean, is it what's right and what's wrong? And then it's like well, this week I did it this way, so it was right. This week it's next week it wasn't didn't work that, or last week whatever and I was like well, am I just like playing the card? Am I just being like well, I get to decide anytime yeah kind of well, yeah, and you? 

15:57 - Krystine (Host)
I mean that essentially that's the dynamic. You're in a female-led relationship and you decide when hey, hey, I understand there's shit going on. 

16:05 - Judy (Guest)
I'm going to let this slide and I'm allowed to yes, then I would get mad and be like, and I'm allowed to, so you don't have to agree with me. 

16:11 - Steven (Guest)
No, and you're right, You're allowed to the issue. The what I would have liked is more communication about what was going on at the time that allowed you to do that. 

16:26 - Krystine (Host)
When we did the rims. 

16:27 - Subby (Co-host)
This was something that I learned very quickly. Oh, can we put context to it? So just quickly. 

16:29 - Judy (Guest)
It wasn't anything good like that. Yeah, no, no, no, it wasn't like that hit a pothole we hit a massive pothole with the camper bent the rims. 

16:37 - Subby (Co-host)
Uh, thanksgiving day, it's very stressful at that time though, and so I just want to get some context. 

16:43 - Krystine (Host)
Oh, yeah, so we were driving along, hit the potholes. This man is brilliant with if something's going to go wrong, it always goes wrong where there's a safe place to pull off the road Every time I mean even when the truck was overheating. Going up the big mountain in New Mexico, like it literally happened, and there's a pull-off right there. There's a town with a little general store one thing of super glue left and one thing of antifreeze left. 

17:09
Yeah, like absolutely always places us in a, in a safe spot. You know, I mean, I will admit this is a little off topic, but when we were going up the hill and he was on that pull-off, the incline was like this like it was a massive incline and we're on this pull-off. He's bouncing around on the front of the truck and I'm like jesus christ, if the park, if the transmission doesn't decide to hold this truck in place, it's going right back down the fucking mountain. 

17:31 - Subby (Co-host)
It was, I was a little nerve wreck I was a little nerve wreck in there, but I didn't, yeah, I didn't say anything, and then he thought he had it fixed and we go up. 

17:40 - Krystine (Host)
I mean, I don't even know if it was a mile. And here's a conveniently placed general store with a nice level gravel parking lot. He just backed it right in, even though it says no parking. We're like we're just going to sit here for a minute, let the truck cool off. Yep, we went to the general store, got what we needed and went right back down the mountain. Amazing. 

17:56 - Judy (Guest)
Yeah. 

17:57 - Krystine (Host)
He's very lucky that way, anyways. So back to the. We hit the pothole and there just happens to be a parking lot, like right there. We shredded one of the tires and the other one was just flat. Yep, so we pull over. I have said nothing, yeah. 

18:09 - Judy (Guest)
I'm like. 

18:10 - Krystine (Host)
The last thing I said was both of our tires are flat on the passenger side. He pulls in, gets out, assesses I get out, I smoke seven cigarettes. You know, I'm like, I'm like multi. I got the whole pack in my mouth and I'm just like, but I just don't. I did not say a word. And he gets, he gets one of the tires off and drops it and I look and the rim is bent to fuck and I'm like I'm not saying a fucking word. Now is not the time. He's got two bottle jacks. He's lifting up the camper trying to get the one tire off. 

18:41 - Subby (Co-host)
It was a work of art to get the tires off of this thing. 

18:46 - Krystine (Host)
We get the one tire off of art. Yes, the tires off of this thing. We have one good spare tire that's on a rim. Yep, he gets it on the camper and then a piece of wood gets stuck in there, and we had the other flat tire. So we get the one good tire we have on the lesser of the two evils of the flats on the other one, just so we can move it. Yep, we get over to where we're going to stay for thanksgiving, which is a correctional facility or a? 

19:07
uh attention center or a mental health facility where people. That's where we ended up staying on thanksgiving. Thankfully there was employees there. They were like, yeah, you can stay for the night. 

19:15 - Subby (Co-host)
They've been watching us from the window the whole time. 

19:18 - Judy (Guest)
Yeah, go to those poor people. Yes, that's a show over there. What? 

19:22 - Krystine (Host)
are they doing so? Once he got settled and we were where we were going to be and we were unhooked from the truck, I said, uh, you might want to take a look at the rims. They were both like bent in so I waited to have the conversation with him. We figured it out. 

19:37
Sledgehammer fixed the problem, all the things, but around the golf on each one yep, that sledgehammer is fucking heavy too, too, yeah, but in that situation I just know not literally do not say anything, because he has to focus. Because I'm really good about when he's doing something, I will talk to him because I'm trying to learn about what he's doing yeah, and that frustrates the shit out of him. Yeah, because it distracts him from what he's doing, and then shit happens. 

19:59 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah. 

20:00 - Judy (Guest)
Which is partially how we hit the power. That's what you said. I try and ask questions. 

20:03 - Krystine (Host)
It's because I'm trying to understand. 

20:05 - Judy (Guest)
In the moment, because I won't remember what I'm trying to ask later. 

20:07 - Subby (Co-host)
Right, I'm trying to put out the fire, right, but every question is like a hole in the bucket to try to. 

20:13 - Judy (Guest)
You don't have enough fingers to. 

20:15 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah, it's not. I just need to okay step one, right, okay, step two step two. 

20:24 - Krystine (Host)
That's. That's how we need to solve the now the female-led relationship side of me, the dominant side, wants me to say listen, shut the fuck up and answer my fucking questions, because I'm not going to learn unless you answer my fucking questions. And you should be able to take the time to answer the question right now. I also know how my brain works, like I know that he needs to be focused and he can't have these interruptions because it's going to get him sidetracked. So, as much as he wants to take the time right to answer the question, I'm sidetracking him from being able to focus on what he's doing right. 

20:52 - Subby (Co-host)
So then at that point it's like we can have a post-game interview kind of thing, like why did you do that that way? Why did we? If I remember to make that? I just said, yeah, yeah yep, I don't know that. 

21:04 - Krystine (Host)
I'll always remember and I think too. I've come to the realization that maybe that's not a good learning moment. You know what I? Mean like for you. Yeah, yes. So I should just shut the fuck up and let him do this thing, and I don't mean shut the fuck up, like what I have to say isn't valid, or me learning, but it's just I need him to focus because it really I mean, this is, this is our home and it depends, like in that instance. 

21:24
This is our home Right and his full attention should be on that, because I don't want this thing to have you know, pulling it down the road Right, and in those moments it wasn't really anger. 

21:33 - Subby (Co-host)
No, I wasn't feeling anger. It's like, oh, my fucking God, what am I going to do? You know so, and know these rims on this camper are so damn rare. Yeah, they're all three hundred dollars a rim for these stupid little 14 inch rims. Right, and we didn't have the funds for, you know, six plus. You know how long are they going to take to get there. Yeah, and I'm going through all the possibilities at the time. So it's more of a freak out that in the middle of yeah, I'm trying to remain calm so that she doesn't see me freaking out, because then the whole thing falls apart. 

22:08 - Krystine (Host)
You know which I was already thinking all those things in my mind anyway. But it's interesting because, as we've as we traveled this winter, it's really hard to freak me out like I don't. I don't know that I get freaked out as much because I know I'm going to have a safe place to sleep. We're not sleeping in a car somewhere, right? So I'm much more relaxed about things. I don't know that I'll be that way in the bus, because repairs on that are much more expensive they are. 

22:32 - Judy (Guest)
Hopefully you won't have as many yes it's not old, yeah yeah, you know, and it's rebuilding it's a new experience too. 

22:38 - Subby (Co-host)
Like we don't know that vehicle as much and we don't know what it does and doesn't do. 

22:42 - Krystine (Host)
Like we know this thing intimately now yes me tapping the camper, so yeah, so intimately yes, I don't know how we, how did we get, oh, the giving you some leeway when circumstances like that are happening and things like that? 

22:58 - Steven (Guest)
I don't it's a tough call. It is a definitely a tough call. At the time. We know that there are some women who might be in an FLR who wouldn't take it, no matter what the circumstances are, that's okay. 

23:11 - Judy (Guest)
That's just not me, that's okay. 

23:12 - Steven (Guest)
That's just the way it works. There are women who want to have an FLR but want to give their husbands space to take care of the issues, without interfering, but being treated properly, with dignity and with courtesy and without the hardness in your voice. You know that can be taught. 

23:40 - Subby (Co-host)
I mean that is a defense. 

23:43 - Steven (Guest)
Just because you're in a stressful situation doesn't mean you should write the head off of the person sitting next to you. Right, right, right and need to be reminded of that. 

23:51 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah. 

23:52 - Steven (Guest)
And I also talked about. If it's so difficult to remember from week to week, then maybe it is more of a time of the offense. So, if you were in a moment and you were out of line and they took you for corporal punishment. They didn't say, well, you'll get it next Tuesday. 

24:12 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah, but it doesn't mean as much Because the emotions are different. 

24:16 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, by the time next Tuesday runs around it's like what the hell we're way? Past, that Something good might have happened in between, which just pales what happened on the previous time, or that kind of thing. 

24:28 - Judy (Guest)
So if other people do it and they have some learned experience about how to do it at a time. 

24:35 - Steven (Guest)
yeah, I don't want to see Judy with a collapsible paddle in her hand. 

24:41 - Judy (Guest)
What do? 

24:41 - Krystine (Host)
I do. 

24:45 - Steven (Guest)
I do. 

24:49 - Krystine (Host)
Step into the camper. I need you for 10 minutes. Can you help me get some drinks, honey? 

24:53 - Steven (Guest)
yeah, yeah, we'll be back in 15 minutes let's take care of a little problem and we'll be right back with you yep, steve comes out with just one little single tear the whole thing's in the. 

25:03 - Judy (Guest)
I mean the bench also. I love it to death, but you know it takes it's a time to set up. Yeah, now it's set up by myself. And now it's even more challenging because, like where we kept it, I can't get to it easily anymore. 

25:18 - Steven (Guest)
But even if, even without the changes, it was tough to get to where we are it was a two-person carry in a small space, yeah, for sure in the moment. 

25:28 - Subby (Co-host)
Sometimes we've like you've given me looks yeah, so that's an instant I am really good at the stink eye, yep there is a, there is a look or a raised eyebrow or or whatever it is, and immediately I recognize that as yep that wasn't, that was not that was not good yep, so I think that's a subtle way of doing that in the moment. 

25:48 - Steven (Guest)
In the moment, yeah, in the moment. 

25:50 - Krystine (Host)
That's what we're talking about discipline in the moment and I think and effective, by the way, yes yeah, I think I'm good at what I do, unless he's wearing sunglasses, yeah sure one of these numbers holding down and that gives the added effect. Yeah, yes, well, and the thing is is when I do this to him, he's like ooh, that's kind of fucking hot. You do so with the glasses, it probably loses the effect a little bit. But then he's like, ooh, you want to plug in later. 

26:18 - Steven (Guest)
I think what also adds to it is the more I've seen Judy's older parents and the way her father treats her mother, the more I want to make sure that we break that mold right here. Judy's used to seeing her father really not be very nice to her mother. Bully is a term I would use. 

26:37 - Judy (Guest)
Yeah, I agree. 

26:38 - Steven (Guest)
And I have noticed occasionally that I had bullied Judy and I was not particularly proud of that Sure. And I want to not ever do that, and I want her to have the wherewithal to stand up and say that behavior is absolutely unacceptable. And here's how unacceptable it is. 

26:58 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah, it's interesting because I was just actually talking with my mom a couple days ago and she said how not good my dad was. I'll just leave it there, or whatever. And I wonder if our generation observed how our fathers were and decided nope, that's not how that's going to work. No, and we do better, right. 

27:21 - Judy (Guest)
You know whatever level that he's always said like one thing the one thing that deposit they took away from his dad is what he's not gonna do yeah, I said those exact words to my mom just the other day, like I learned that what not to do from my dad. 

27:38 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah, so interesting mm-hmm. 

27:40 - Steven (Guest)
Justin Lee Miller, since we were on that conversation about that podcast, he did a segment about men, One of his last ones. I actually thought it was a great podcast. It's probably only a month old now and the gist of the podcast was that men have changed in the last 50 years on their approach to women. And you're looking at you know there was the masculinity of the 50s and then there was the woman movement of the 60s, so you had a man 1.0 and the patriarch and then you had, uh, the next generation was man 2.0 and that there was a lot of the equal rights in there. 

28:23
Sure, and then he said and now there's the 3.0, which is, I said, judy, I'm a 3.0 because it's not just equal, it is now shifted the other way, and now I'm. And women don't understand their role. 

28:38
They're so used to the one and the twos that it's difficult for them to get to the threes and the 3.0 don't understand where they are because, well, we've never seen 3.0 before. Right right, you know what are the rules of engagement for 3.0? I thought it was a fascinating. He had a guest speaker on it. I thought it was a fascinating podcast. I actually listened to it again. I made Judy listen to it. 

29:04 - Krystine (Host)
I'm like, uh, 3.0,. Yeah, you got the best model out, newest model. So, speaking of dads and things that you took away, judy and I were kind of talking about this yesterday when we were walking. Like what do you think your kids' relationship styles are? I mean, do you think that your daughter is going to be more dominant you know what I mean and your son more submissive, like do you think they've observed that from your dynamic? 

29:28 - Subby (Co-host)
even if you pull away, like the flr label or whatever, you're setting an example of what a relationship looks like. So it doesn't have a label necessarily, but what a relationship could look like so I guess it's my to some extent. 

29:42 - Steven (Guest)
I wonder which memory they'll pull from their memory banks when they're thinking about it, because there was a time when they were younger and Judy and I would go toe-to-toe and have these arguments and I could be a real jerk, and I think they see some of that. 

29:57 - Judy (Guest)
And our daughter did comment. We used to think that we couldn't hear you in the morning when you would get up. And we thought we were sleeping in bed and we knew our guys were fighting. 

30:09 - Steven (Guest)
I was you in the morning when you would get up and you know we thought we were sleeping in bed and you guys were fighting, so I didn't. I didn't like hearing that. And then now we're here. Uh, now they're older and we're older. We're in a much different place than we were 20 years ago and they, they see the whole different dynamic and reflecting going on. My daughter has often noticed that I've, I've, uh, I'm making dinner for Judy and I'm also cleaning up the dishes for Judy and I'm also, you know, doing some of those things that I'm sure she hasn't said anything. Oh, and she also accidentally opened up a box of toys that were delivered to the house. 

30:35 - Krystine (Host)
I did hear that story. Oh my God, I freaked out. 

30:38 - Steven (Guest)
He freaked out. I freaked out, but she taught me a thing or two in a series of about 14 texts and I'm like, oh, I've got the right daughter here. Yeah, she was smarter than I was at that particular point. Sure sure, absolutely handled it like a mature person. I was the child, yeah. 

30:55 - Krystine (Host)
The embarrassed child. Yeah, and I think the culture that the kids are growing up in now is entirely different than what we you know, what I mean. She's probably been far more exposed to different alternatives and you know different toys and different things, and she's probably way more aware than like I ever was growing up Like I didn't know any of these things. 

31:14 - Subby (Co-host)
And then oh, by the way, you're setting an example. 

31:16 - Krystine (Host)
Yeah, well, yeah, because it's your child, you know, you're like oh my gosh, I'm mortified. I was literally mortified. 

31:23 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, and you know she. And here's what really caught me off guard. It's not like she said hey, I got one of your boxes and I had to unpack and it's on your table. What happened was we came home and we were doing all things and my daughter went back to her place and I came back and it was on the dining room table all open in parts because the box got soaking wet. 

31:44
Oh, she was doing a good. She thought I was in favor, take the stuff out. It's soaking wet, it had been under the eve and it poured. She brought this horrible box in and then ripped it open and put these horrible implements out on the table and then threw the box out but didn't say anything to us. 

32:00
So I come in, yeah, and I look at the dining room table and it's all laid out there and I yell. And that's when I'm like, oh my god, what you saw here is tremendous, yeah, I mean traumatic for you it was terribly probably because of how we grew up right, right. 

32:18 - Subby (Co-host)
You don't show your kids that right, but the kids have grown up differently to where yeah, I mean I'm sure she wasn't thrilled, right? 

32:24 - Krystine (Host)
oh for sure you don't want, right, oh for sure you don't wanna think about your parents doing that, so correct? 

32:28 - Subby (Co-host)
But mature enough to know. Okay, that's my name's Paul, that's between y'all kind of thing. 

32:33 - Krystine (Host)
Yeah. 

32:34 - Subby (Co-host)
And. 

32:34 - Krystine (Host)
I do that with my kids all the time. They'll ask me questions and I'll be like, okay, listen. So my daughter would say, yeah, I kind of want to know, and I'll say it. She's like, oh, and she's gotten much better. Yes, I didn't really want to know. 

32:52
Yeah, she's gotten much better, though, about asking questions and she's also becoming more open. I mean this. So my daughter used to change in the closet yeah, in her closet, with the closet door closed and her bedroom door closed, like, change clothes, she needs clothes, yeah, she wouldn't do it in her room with her door closed. She had to go in her closet, close the closet door. She had to walk in closet, yeah, and then, you know, now she's like half the time she's peeing with the door open. You know what I mean. She's so different, and now she's much more open about talking about things as far as like sexual things. 

33:30
Like she'll tell me things about herself or she'll ask me questions about her body, or you know things like that, and I'm like, wow, you've created that environment for her. 

33:34 - Subby (Co-host)
I didn't I really did not have that, yeah, but you created that for her so that she feels comfortable to do that and just like not have to have all these walls or whatever. Now there's, there's this, this environment, which then now she can bring that to her daughter, hopefully. 

33:48 - Steven (Guest)
I would think so. 

33:50 - Subby (Co-host)
So there's a directional change. 

33:56 - Steven (Guest)
So hopefully my son I know he's observed, I know he's seen it. We're very close, we do a lot of activities together and because of that I'm hoping that he's watched how I've tried to treat his mother in the last 20 years being different and I'm hoping that he's watched how I've tried to treat his mother in the last 20 years being different and I'm hoping that some of the stuff that they saw when we were kids fades from their memories. Like you don't remember everything and then good new stuff knocks out the old. 

34:21 - Subby (Co-host)
Which probably will, because it's more recent, it's more present. 

34:24 - Steven (Guest)
He would like to think that way, not necessarily. 

34:26 - Judy (Guest)
At least they realize you know, you can change People. Change, People learn. 

34:29 - Subby (Co-host)
Right Another lesson. 

34:32 - Judy (Guest)
Yeah, 25 years ago was different than you know. 

34:35 - Krystine (Host)
Yep, and it really shows them that when you are in a relationship or in a marriage, you don't just give up. Right, you work it out and things can get better. Yep. 

34:50 - Subby (Co-host)
I think that's when my daughter realized that as a teenager she always was afraid with these arguments that we were going to get divorced. 

34:54 - Steven (Guest)
I said that's not what we're arguing about. And also I will also say this, and I said it to Judy and I also said it to my daughter my family, my parents, got along horrendously and divorced after 15 and probably shouldn't have even been married, and they never argued, but the tension in the household could be cut with a knife. 

35:16
I am telling you it was worse, at least if you were yelling at each other or sometimes screaming at each other. There was something, there was something there, and yet the kids kind of knew what we might have been yelling about or where we'd gone off the rails or something like that. And then you know, my parents nothing, no conversation. They wouldn't even be in the same room together. You'd have to go from here in the living room all the way over there to the den, and still the tension was terrible. Yeah, dinners were quiet and and I would think that would be worse I also thought that because, you know, once we blow up and we make terms with that, we're, we're human beings. 

36:02
And this tension went on for days, you know, and then there would be a good day, and then the tension would start up all over and no one would ever say you know, your mom and dad are not getting along right now. It's got nothing to do with you, it's just our relationship. We're not getting along. And as a 9, 10, 11 year old, you take that attention, you go oh my god, what did I do wrong? Yes, is this the owner? I own it. Yep, and now that? 

36:27 - Judy (Guest)
can I fix? 

36:28 - Steven (Guest)
it Right and my. So that's how uh. And when my daughter realized that we had uh active conversation going on and sometimes we get heated and sometimes we get angry with each other, it didn't mean that next week we were, we were filing papers to get the right. 

36:47
And at one particular point in time she turned around and she was like I don't understand why. I was afraid you will never divorce, mom. And I said you're right, because when I got married, I got married, I had seen what divorce does. Yeah, there was no way. I was never going to stop working on being married. I was never going to throw my hands up and go, yeah, this just isn't for me, I just can't. This is too hard, I'm not, it sucks. I'm so miserable, I'm just getting out no, there's people that that's okay for right you know, but it's a. 

37:19 - Judy (Guest)
I just want, like the kids, to know it's a choice like and then you need to have all the information if you're going to choose to get out or you're going to choose to work instead right, and I think I think both of you I mean I assume both of you worked, you know what I mean. 

37:32 - Krystine (Host)
It was a team effort. You were both putting in the effort to solve the issues where, when. Sometimes, when you're in a relationship, it's totally one sided and you can't keep giving and they keep taking it. 

37:42 - Steven (Guest)
So I recognized early obviously that if she had an issue with me and we had an argument over it, then I would try to change it. You know, I tried to make it better. I wasn't going to go out doing it no, it's my way. Or the highway, no, and the same thing. If we were having an issue with that and with Judy, then she would, you know, try to change it. Anybody who's trying to work with it, or we at least have further discussions about it. I mean, obviously, in the course of growing up together and we did grow up together for years, for sure you do run into certain topics of conversation that you are not just going to agree. Okay, they're just not. So we agree to disagree. 

38:27 - Krystine (Host)
That's a skill a lot of people don't have it takes some time, it takes some, you have to. 

38:31 - Steven (Guest)
When you, they get to that topic or you, you find that circumstance, it's tough to turn a blind eye and bite your tongue and say, okay, because it brings up all the old yeah and right, you're only going to replace everything. Yeah, you're gonna always. You can rehash it forever and you know I, I didn't, I don't want to do that and I am very good at remembering things that happened 22 years ago and throwing in Judy's face, and I've stopped doing that in the last five years. I've really concentrated. 

38:58 - Judy (Guest)
Sometimes it's good not to. I don't remember. Yeah, it's a blessing. 

39:02 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, I do. Sometimes I wish I didn't have the memory of an elephant and I could remember, you know, when you slighted me on a Tuesday. 

39:12 - Krystine (Host)
Yeah, you can go right in the Rolodex back to that day and remember when. 

39:16 - Steven (Guest)
Yes. 

39:17 - Krystine (Host)
It's so balmy. 

39:19 - Steven (Guest)
Yes, and it's not any pleasure, and sometimes I've expressed that. Sometimes I see the same behaviors, the same circumstances arising and I want to say, oh, slolob, I don't need to go down this road because I I recognize it from 13 years ago, sure, and uh, you know, and I try to throw the brakes on before we get there, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work, but you have to be careful about how you bring those up yeah, like in our conversation we just had where we were talking about that time where the there was a lot of tension in our family with the girls and we got into that fight and just said you wanted a divorce. 

39:54 - Krystine (Host)
Like I don't bring that up as like throwing that in his face, saying you know you want a divorce. Like he was dividing property you take this, you take this, I'll take this, whatever. And. And I was like we haven't even been married a year, fuck off, we ain't getting a divorce. You're fucking stuck with my. 

40:09 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah. 

40:09 - Krystine (Host)
And I only bring that up because that was probably the worst it's ever been for us, and it wasn't even us. 

40:16 - Subby (Co-host)
It was all the other elements, it was everything else Coming in. 

40:19 - Steven (Guest)
Sometimes you definitely react from the hip and you throw out words that I mean I can tell you. There's a bunch of times where I reacted, and I reacted poorly, I reacted quickly. It was very visceral for me at that one particular time and two seconds after those words come out of my mouth, God, I wish I could pull those back. 

40:38 - Krystine (Host)
And I hold on to that and I don't mean to, but those words come out and then it's just like they replay in my head. His words you mean, yes, his words when he says that and when I bring that up. That's why, when we were talking about if there's an argument or whatever, and he throws the safe word and says I need, I need some time to process I think that was a big part of how I accepted that he needs that time to process, because he hadn't had time to process anything. I mean, this is him walking down the stairs and we're fucking done, I want a divorce and he left. I don't ever want to go through that again. I would rather give him the time to process. I'll stay the fuck away and then because then I don't ever have to relive that in my mind, because I will, because, right, I was so scared to get married in the first place, like I had one. 

41:19
I planned on being married forever and yeah, that is not what was intended for me and I didn't. I was so scared to get married again because I didn't want to go through all this again. And here I am, six months into my second fucking marriage and the D words being thrown out and I'm like I can't, even I can't. So I would much rather have him process and not say the things, because I don't know how to process those things and learn to let them go and I'm not holding on to that. That's the experience that I tie with being able to let you process for the time that you need right, right, right. 

41:52 - Steven (Guest)
She's not always so thrilled when I said I can't talk about this now. 

41:55 - Krystine (Host)
Yeah yeah, oh, I get that, I want. I want to resolve it right now, when the feelings are there yeah, that's what we and she always says to me uh, that's people, that's not your. 

42:04 - Steven (Guest)
Um, you can't do that. That's what she'd like to say. I want to talk about this now, and it's a fallout. We're talking about it now and I say but you know, I'm not so sure what I want to say, so then I go quiet and she doesn't like that either. Yeah, but I mean I, it's just, I have to, I have to shut it down. I don't want to. I'm smart enough now to know don't shut up. 

42:27 - Judy (Guest)
You know yeah it's a different one. Be careful what you wish for. 

42:30 - Subby (Co-host)
Yes, right, yes and we actually brought this up at dinner the other night and whatever, yeah, the other night about one person wants to solve it right now, the other person needs the space. Right, and if the female wants to solve it right now and the male needs the space, and what makes it right that the male gets the space right and in in the conversation and I think about it afterwards, the safety of the marriage is what is what's at stake, right, right? So for the safety of the marriage, the male gets the path to do that. Yeah, because then it's a healthier conversation on the other side, right? 

43:07 - Krystine (Host)
so yeah, and I 100. I mean I much. I would much rather have you process than say something that I can't unhear it's not like. 

43:15 - Subby (Co-host)
It's not like I'm getting my way. No, right, but chemically I need, I need this how you're wired right. 

43:22 - Steven (Guest)
So both of us are both wired very similarly. Where we're going to. We need that. 

43:28
I can't tell you exactly how I feel eight minutes later, I need, right, I need because it's not really the way I feel necessarily in that moment, in that moment, my feelings are very visceral and they attack me, sometimes right, and then I have to separate the right, what actually happened, from the way I was feeling at the time right and to be honest, if I was to really self-evaluate, I probably am not in the feeling that I'm going to be feeling when we actually sit down and have this conversation later. 

43:55 - Krystine (Host)
You know what I mean? Yeah, so I've had time to process because I have to go through all the things. You know, I'm really pissed off and then I'm going to cry about it and then I'm sad about it and then, okay, I've gone through the whole cycle. Now let's have a conversation about where are we really at and what really caused this and why did we get here and how do we prevent it from fucking happening again right, it's a real conversation, it's real communication, whereas if, sometimes, if I were to quote, unquote, get my way, then it would really be just uh one-sided but it would be yelling of like it would be the replaying. 

44:24 - Judy (Guest)
I wouldn't necessarily be in here and now would be the old feelings and the old recordings yeah, which which? 

44:30 - Steven (Guest)
thing? 

44:30 - Judy (Guest)
are we fighting about, or which thing are? 

44:33 - Steven (Guest)
we learning from and leon, I said to judy I said we like do the circular thing where we oh, we do the same. It's always the same dog and pony show the. The topic might be different, but the reactions and the way we react. We're in this pattern and we've got to break that we have to, like you said we have to. 

44:50
We're in this pattern. You've got to break that. Like you said, we break the pattern and sometimes just acknowledging that the pattern is there and what you said how to make sure this doesn't happen again is something that I focus on a lot. Sure, Probably she doesn't like that, but it is, it's happened. So what do we got to do to make sure it doesn't? 

45:13 - Judy (Guest)
happen again. Can't sit here and get upset and say it shouldn't be happening anymore, because that's, you can't do the same thing and expect different results. 

45:20 - Krystine (Host)
Right, or expect different results? Yes, for sure. 

45:23 - Steven (Guest)
For sure. And the same thing goes when we play. Some of our play sessions don't go off as planned, and for a while there judy would force it and try. This was the plan we'll go through. And now, uh, if they're just not working, I said let's just throw in the towel. It's easier to throw in the towel now before we get all bent out of shape, yeah, presumably, and and come back around, yep, let's just throw it in and admit it didn't work. We'll, we'll talk about it tomorrow. We it in and admit it didn't work. We'll, we'll talk about it tomorrow. We'll figure out why it didn't work and then the next time we roll it out it'll work a little better. 

45:56 - Krystine (Host)
Right, it works it does work that way right I have to get over the feeling of like I've let you down if something doesn't go the way that we plan. 

46:06
Like I feel like I've let you down, for throwing in the towel is hard for me because I'm like I you're not a giver-upper right, I don't want to, I don't want to let you down, I don't want to and I don't want to say, fail you, because I don't think it's failing you. But we've had this plan and here we are, we're executing it, and it's not going that way and I automatically think, well, I did it wrong it's all it always goes back to it's my fault she says it all the time, yeah, all the time. 

46:28 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, All the time I'm like don't worry about it. 

46:32 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, you don't have to own it. 

46:33 - Steven (Guest)
You don't have to own it. No, it's not just you, by the way, right, it really isn't. Sometimes I'm not in the right head space, right, and that brings my head's just not there. Now she could force the issue and say we're doing it anyways, and sometimes I think she should, because that pushes the end. Sometimes I know, and it's a tough call, I really wouldn't want to be in her place having to decide is this the time I go? You, you're doing it my way anyway, or is this the time I go? Okay, give him his space. And sometimes you just have to look at the context of what has happened in that day or that time, yep, and. And sometimes I would like her to just give me the shove and I'll change my. You know one way or another, and she has and, and it's worked, and, and then those not always, but sometimes it does and when it doesn't, okay, throw the towel, you know. Okay, we're done. You're right, you weren't in the right head space, we'll come back around. 

47:32 - Judy (Guest)
It happens. 

47:34 - Steven (Guest)
We're not always ready to go and tuned up and you know there's stresses. 

47:40 - Krystine (Host)
You guys aren't having wild, crazy sex in your camper all the time. That's so weird. 

47:45 - Steven (Guest)
No. 

47:45 - Krystine (Host)
I totally had that perception. No Sex swing from the ceiling. 

47:51 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, no, I mean in fantasy world, it sounds great, yeah, sure, yes, I get that. And the other thing is sometimes she's not really doesn't expect the response afterwards. So she's gotten really good at providing intense tease and denial. So if you're in a chastity device for a while and you have a couple of these intense teasing and denial circumstances, that's not easy to come down from right afterwards. 

48:25 - Subby (Co-host)
Right. 

48:26 - Steven (Guest)
And that's kind of I've explained that to her a bunch of times Like I have to have something to go do after that. I mean, if you get me that twerked up and put me back in the cage, there's a lot of energy there that has to go someplace. I'm like a battery now that's in full charge. 

48:43 - Judy (Guest)
Sure, sure sure you cleaned the bathrooms really well two sets ago. 

48:49 - Steven (Guest)
I did really well and that wasn't an easy thing for her to understand right off the bat. I mean, she understood it but she didn't quite understand. So if she teases me up and it's 10.30 at night and she expects me to climb back in a bed after I can't do it, I cannot do it. So I said pay attention to the time. I cannot do it, you know. Yeah, so you know. I said you know, pay attention to the time, yep, or send me on an assignment. 

49:18 - Krystine (Host)
Sure, you know, maybe the best, 10.30 at night. Go for a fucking walk, yeah. 

49:21 - Steven (Guest)
Or, you know, 9 o'clock, that's when people go eat, yeah, and that's when I would go eat. Yeah, I would, I. So we, yeah, I would, I would. I could pound the food and watch YouTube or whatever, and so it's actually better if we do it at like 11 o'clock in the am, and then, you know, I'm building the barn, I'm changing the tires on the truck, moving the camper with a backpack, that's it, you know, I think it's time to scour the patio and wax the floor. Yeah, you know, I can do it in about 45 minutes, that's right. 

49:55
So you know, there is a certain piece of me that would say you know, if you play your cards right, you can get your car washed and waxed there. You go On the same afternoon. 

50:09 - Krystine (Host)
So when you have a tease and denial session, does Judy get to finish? Is that part of it or is she focused on you? It could run either way. 

50:17 - Steven (Guest)
Either way it just depends on how you're feeling that day. I think she gets so twerked up that she'd love to, and then I think sometimes she just enjoyed the show so much that she doesn't need another thing, which kills me because I would like to do the finish. Yeah, at least someone gets some satisfaction out of it because I clearly am not and because she can put the cb on without untying me. I really have a very little say if she leaves the gag and it's over. 

50:46
You know, that's just the way it is right and I know how it's going, because she's not gag, is not coming out until it's back on and we're done, and that's very difficult. 

50:55 - Krystine (Host)
You know that is tough, sure she is but super hot at the same time. 

51:00 - Steven (Guest)
Yes, I wouldn't do it any other way because it is such a turn on yeah, and I am a rock. I mean she'll tell me oh, like 18 here, 19. And I'm like, I'm very proud and then later, and then later, I'm like oh my God, that was so intense. But that's such, it's like the adrenaline after a roller coaster, right, you get down there like, oh my God, I'm so drained, blah, blah, blah, but I'm so fired for blah blah, but I'm so tired forward also. 

51:32 - Krystine (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting, it's fascinating the dynamics, yeah that's for another conversation sure we can have all the conversations here until tuesday, every day. Is there anything else that you wanted to well? 

51:49 - Subby (Co-host)
Well, I mean honestly, we could sit at this table all day and talk about things we do. 

51:53 - Steven (Guest)
We do spend a lot of time yacking about things which is good. 

51:56 - Subby (Co-host)
Yes, absolutely good. 

51:57 - Krystine (Host)
Just fun for us. 

51:58 - Subby (Co-host)
Yeah, I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

52:01 - Krystine (Host)
Just kind of a summation of the episode. Female-led relationships ebb and flow, sometimes there's maintenance spankings, sometimes there's maintenance spankings, sometimes there's not. Sometimes they will evolve to maintenance spankings and then a play session, and maybe it won't. You just never know. 

52:15 - Subby (Co-host)
Right, I mean that's. We've said it over and over about you know you go through the season. 

52:20 - Krystine (Host)
Yep and communication is key. 

52:23 - Steven (Guest)
Yep, All the things you know, and you're talking about foundation. 

52:28 - Krystine (Host)
You guys are a true testament to that too. Um then you're talking about foundation. You guys are a true testament to that too, because not only have you been together and grew up together, a lot of your interests that you like to do in your free time are entirely different. You know what I mean. You guys have really worked hard and communicated well to go through the tough times, make sure you're staying on the same page, stay connected. In addition, finding something that you both like doing together. You know what I mean, because there's not a whole lot that you're interested in doing together. And then, on top of that, you maintain your communication level and you you step out and try new things, and you know I mean. What are you talking about? 

53:03 - Steven (Guest)
yeah, I'd like to say we live the whole entire human condition. You know that there's really and we're no different than anybody else really Everybody lives their human condition, right, right, I think some people are more cognizant of the human condition that they're living, and I think that's where the difference may lie and why it seems a little different here. 

53:22 - Judy (Guest)
Some people are more real about it too. 

53:24 - Subby (Co-host)
True, right, true, which is like the point of why we keep talking about this is to just make it relatable to anybody. You know that it's not what you see in in porn or social media or anything like that, or books or blogs or whatever there's a lot of emotion attached to it, yeah there's, there's realness to it, you know and it ebbs, and it flows, and yes, and that's okay and in the beginning I always said it shouldn't feel like work. 

53:50 - Krystine (Host)
But I think anything that's worth, anything you have to work for yeah that has kind of changed yeah, it is a different kind of work like it shouldn't, you know. You know, you recognize that the maintenance stuff was starting to feel like more of an obligation and it was becoming more not enjoyable. So obviously in that instance then you need to switch it up and find something different. 

54:08 - Subby (Co-host)
But I think that's the work Then really it's not really all that bad. 

54:13 - Judy (Guest)
No, but I just want people to realize that it happens and it's not bad. Like you say, oh, you do something different. Well, we haven't figured out that different thing yet. 

54:21 - Krystine (Host)
Yeah, and that's OK yeah. 

54:23 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, and no one should feel like they did something wrong or they screwed up. Or they did something wrong or they screwed up, or right. You didn't get. You know, I treated you poorly, I mean. I mean, that's what it's all about, right right and don't give up. 

54:34 - Krystine (Host)
Just rework it a little, figure out what works and what does it, and then stick with that for a little bit and then it might change a little bit here and it might do an upswing, and then it might come back down. I mean you just never know. Yeah, okay, I love it, yeah, anything else I don't think so euler Okay, I love it. Yeah, anything else, I don't think so. Bueller, such a good movie. 

54:57 - Steven (Guest)
If only he could have stayed that age forever right, Don't worry. 

55:01 - Krystine (Host)
Okay, stay safe, stay healthy, be kind, love you all.